Sunday, September 24, 2006

Sunday selections

Read in IBJ's blog,

In the spirit of Ramadan "this year non-Muslims (Christians, Jews and others) are fasting during certain days in Ramadan in solidarity with their Muslim brothers and sisters who are facing war, occupation and continued harassment and intimidation"

This is all over the news today, surprised?

On a different note, Ahmadi-Nejad has been ridiculed and demonized for attacking the right of the Israeli government to exist. A government that clearly opposes his country and had declared war on his government for years now in plans presented by Netanyahu (the new realm) as well as indirectly through the neo-cons in office who had be planning for a war on Iran even before the war on Iraq as it was confirmed by Ramsey Clark and in Seymour Hirsh's recent article in the New Yorker. A government that clearly represents an American ally in the region and an enemy of Iran as Israel has declared itself to be. A government that competes with Iran's interests in Iraq and in the control in the region. On a more ideological side, a government that is opposite to the ideology of the islamic republic since it persecutes, tortures and oppress muslims in Palestine.

This man is called a fanatic, a crazy warlord, a racist yet the American and Israeli leaders who are the reason for the situation in Iraq, the tortures, the continuation of the illegal occupation in Israel, the exploitation of fear and grief for political gain, the persecution and the psychological war against muslims and Arabs, the exploitation of the Arabic oil and the destruction of countries and murder of our people and their own to do so are democratic leaders who are doing the best for democracy? So in president Clinton's rhetoric, who said their shit doesn't stink? And wait a minute? Who said only Americans are allowed to do the best for their nation in any cost possible and to punish other leaders for doing the same, including Saddam? I know these are old questions but when will people wake up? Read the selections in the links below and if you need a reminder on torture by all means, read here, here and here and Bush's immunity to being accused of war crimes. This article and this video might present a reasonable explanation as to why the Irani leader might not be met with outrage by the Arabic world as he speaks on Israel (and many more examples i have already mentioned on the Israeli oppression of Palestinians).

you might enjoy the links below:
on Bush
Ahmadinejad's address to the UN
Chavez's address to the UN

34 comments:

Andrey said...

So Netaniahu said that Iran is our enemy, wow! He noticed. Saying that Israel is the one to blame for Iran-Israel hostility is stupid in my eyes. You may say that their support of lebanese shias in the early 80's, is legitimate, and pretend that this is not what made them enemies with Israel, you may say that Hizbullah has been able to organize the bombings in argentina in 92, 94 by themselvs, but there are a few solid facts:
(1) Israel has never atacked Iran, and never even threatened it.
(2) Iran has constantly carried warmonging declarations towards Israel, it is insulting JEWS, not only by denying the holocoast, but in many many other ways: U can find a lot on memritv.org.
(3) They are the ones who know about Ron Arad. He was sold to them (The Guardians of Revolution)by Mustafa Dirany.
By the way, are you aware, of the fact that as a part of prisoners exchange between HA and Israel, Samir Kuntar was supposed to be freed in exchange for INFORMATION about Ron Arad, so my dear isn't Iran kinda responsible for the july war too? In the way, that choosing and pushing to violance, in face of clear and recognized nonviolent way for solution.

Mirvat said...

1) not true. it has and to our realization since at least 2000
2) you say constantly which is not true and even if it is, read the post again. you bomb lebanon because you don't agree with HA's plans or tactics, he doesn't agree with yours, keeping in mind HA are defending their land, you are just oppressing and occupying the palestinians, what makes Israel better or immune to the punishment the lebanese had to suffer?
3) as i see it they wanted a peaceful exchange and israel is the one who launched the attack
you seem to have twisted the facts and that is really sad.

on my blog i state my views. my political views will naturally contradict with yours. thinking an opinion i post is stupid, i would advise that you close the page and move on. otherwise i can still keep an open mind, keep your comments and maybe think about them when you present yourself better.

Andrey said...

sorry for the stupid, it was too unexpected for me, and really unbelivable for me, I'll take a deep breath next time before I write. could you please tell me when Israel has attacked (or maybe threatened)Iran ?

About that thing that they wanted peasfull exchange, their act actualy made me understand why didn't arabs want peace with Israel after 67 war.
They captured 2 soldiers, killed 8 more, while shelling all over the north of Israel, at least from 2 IDF bases there were reports of HA men trying to attack them, and then HN says that he just want to exchange the prisoners...
Anyway, I was talking about Iran and not HA.

Mirvat said...

you connect the dots and i might provide a reference linking the US or/and Israel and interchangeably refer to their plans in the region (the new middle east) since we all know they're the same with this administration
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/081306Y.shtml
http://www.iasps.org/strat1.htm

Andrey said...

Look, if Ahmadinedjad says he is against Israel, it doesn't make him a good man. You should look at what is happening in Iran:
Here
Here
Here
Here
And again, I'm sorry

Mirvat said...

listen andrey, you again miss my point. i have yet to call a leader nowadays a good man on this blog, what i am against is the double standards and the absurdity of punishing some but not others based on the racist account that some lives are more valuable.
saying i want to take lebanon 20 years back, saying flood the south with cluster bombs, saying i want the south a sand box, or any of Bush's hidden racist statements for that matter, is no different from what the leader of Iran said in Israel.
If you cannot accept that, there's no point in arguing. and is you want to tell me but HA did this and that and iran supported them, then i'll go into what israel does.. this is about holding all accountable.

Andrey said...

ok, you are right. but the problem with his words is presented that way: he says that he wants to wipe Israel of the map, and he wants to achive nuclear weapons. And about this Israeli talks, I remember during the war they said in the news that the goverment told all this generals to shut-up, because they are hurting Israel with these declarations.

Mirvat said...

andrey, egypt just said they want nuclear weapons. will the US oppose that? i don't think so. ahmadinejad actually made an undisputable point in his UN address if you want to read it about that issue. basically why should one nation tell another what to do and until they prove to be worthy of being peacekeepers in the world, as opposed to war criminals themselves (as Bush himself states i'm a war president) then maybe we'll grant them moral superiority. meanwhile the iraqis and the palestinians still suffer, from the way i see it Iran hasn't done anything that compares to that.
so feeling threatened today? well who isn't? do you think we're not threatened after what israel did knowing israel has nuclear capacities? again the point is to hold everybody accountable.

heart to heart, i feel so offended when i see today's view of us, the arabic world. the iraqis are the most educated people in the middle east for once. i do not feel inferior to you or any american or israeli. i do not feel my safety or that of my country or any arabic nation secondary to that of jewish people. you have to try and see things from our point of view andrey. we do that believe me. i wouldn't accept the state of israel myself if i didn't.

Andrey said...

egypt wants nuclear energy. As the strongest arabic country it can't just sit and watch Iran becoming dominant in the region. Peace in Israel and Palestine is becoming very urgent not only for world security, but for many Arab regimes, so maybe we could thank the mulahs for that - if it will push us all to solving this problem.
But, I am sorry Mirvat, Israel has no leaders to bring such huge changes, nor the Palestinians. (nor America of course).
And I don't know what will make you not offended by the view of arabic world, but I hope it would be something like the view of lebanon, just before the war.

Mirvat said...

that's the optimistic view of course. egypt will not do anything against Iran. The government is a US ally but all the people, including the army, are not against Iran. it's just political maneuvering to claim political weight in the region such as the aim of Iran’s nuclear power in the region which ahmadinejad almost said on many occasions.

have you seen the movie i linked?

Andrey said...

Yes, I have seen it. As an israeli, I care only about the palestinian issue, and it is realy depresing that the palestinians are used to gain power/legitimacy/support by various players, like Naser, Sadam, and recently Ah..gad. It would be much happier, if someone would actualy solve it for the same aims.

Mirvat said...

i'm going to take what you said in the positive sense, though it's hard because we disagree on everything you said. apart from the legitimcy, which i think they have 100%, support which we all as human beings owe them, power which they obviously have non of, i do see your point about actually practically solving the solution instead of inflaming a regional war. i hope leaders on both ends will come to a point where they both genuinely put that as a priority as opposed to seeking to use the crisis to gain regional support and power.
but this was not what the movie was about :)

Andrey said...

Again missunderstanding, this: i hope leaders on both ends will come to a point where they both genuinely put that as a priority as opposed to seeking to use the crisis to gain regional support and power.
is actually what I said.
palestinians are used BY REGIONAL LEADERS to gain power/legitimacy/support.

(I doubt that you meant that we must give, say, Saddam our support and legitimacy, when he ocupies Kuwait, while throwing scuds on Israel - as a "support to palestinians" )
No about the movie, yes I have seen it, I understand why why the Irani leader might not be met with outrage by the Arabic world, and the things shown there, and I have got nothing to add .

Mirvat said...

"i hope leaders on both ends will come to a point where they both genuinely put that as a priority as opposed to seeking to use the crisis to gain regional support and power." i was rephrasing what you said in a manner that satisfies both parties :)

and the thing about saddam! the movie talks about the present war on iraq not the gulf war.

"No about the movie, yes I have seen it, I understand why why the Irani leader might not be met with outrage by the Arabic world, and the things shown there, and I have got nothing to add"
thank you, exactly my point.

nice chat andrey

Andrey said...

funny morning news, al-qaeda has recruited some palestinians in Lebanon, to fire some rockets to Israel, an HA has stoped them. (This happened before the war).
There are rummors starting, about soon to come atacks by Iran and Turkey on Kurdistan... (or "Kurdistan", or the Kurd entitee :> )

Mirvat said...

An Iran Turkey alliance? now that's very unlikely
but on the other hand there's the new evidence of Israel arming the Kurds http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5364982.stm

Andrey said...

yeh, seen that.
1) Olmert has been in Saudia, met a high rank leader.
2) Israelis have been holding meetings with Syrians during the war! (Low level)

rouba said...

i didn't read all the comments above, mirvat, bas i wanted to say, chavez gives me 'helpless optimism'
thanks for the link i hadn't read it yet

Lirun said...

so if its about holding leaders accountable.. do you think you have done that to the iranian leader.. mirvat - all you do is sow your hate for israel..

i remain diappointed..

Anonymous said...

All right, I plowed through the exchange above.
I am certain that I could add my three cents, but I am certainly not going to do this now :)
Salamaat, Shalom, Peace

Anonymous said...

P.S.
Hugo Chavez is the only leader of a democratic run country who dares to speak up to the mighty USA. Ahmadinejad is a leader of a mosly theocratic run country. So when he speaks up, I don't sympathize as I do with Chavez. But I do recognize the charisma he radiates.
Oh yes, by the way I follow the trial of Saddam, it is ludicrous! Even though he was a murderer, torturer and tyrant - I have to say something to his defense. When the war between Iraq and Iran was going on, Kuwait (that stinking little peace of shit where the the camel dung stinks and the rulers mostly reside in my home-country Switzerland) was giving Saddam millions after millions to fight the Iranians because they were afraid that their access to the straight in the Gulf would be hampered or that Iran would claim key access points ...
Right after the war (both Iraq and Iran were a mess and needed reconstruction) these slimy bastards demanded back all the money they had given the Iraqi leader, immediately!!! Saddam was broke and they knew it. Nevertheless, they insisted and threatened to put high interest penalties on those loans. It was then that Saddam freaked out and declared: "You little wretched monkeys, I show you who, how, and when I can pay you back, I supported you, you supported me and now you want to see me to bleed my country to death? Fuck you, you were not long ago an independent entity as you are now, but part of Iraq!"
And so, with the blessings of the US ambassador in Iraq, the first Gulf war was started.
Can't blame the man for that.
Now what happened afterwards is a mystery to me. Bush senior had changed his mind, hence the first Gulf war, and then imposed the famous sanctions on Iraq, with no fly-zones and all.
Then the inspectors came in, and they came out, and then in again. But there was no gratitude in that for the US empire. So they fabricated the myth of weapons of mass destruction (WMD). The inspectors had to quit. Scott Ritter rebelled and went back to visit Saddam, him being the chief inspector for quite some years, stating that a dialog is needed. The US government cut Scott Ritter short and fabricated some shit that he was into kiddie-porn, put a damper on his reputation (unfounded of course).
So what did Saddam do? Well, he played his last card and declared that Iraqi oil would trade from now on in Euro's and not in Dollars. I strongly believe that that did "brake the camel's back" and the US government freaked out. For decades the oil marked was based on the US Dollar, actually from the beginning on of exploitation in the Middle East. Now suddenly, the the country of the second largest oil reserve in that region defies the US currency. That could be a disaster! The US dollar would plummet to it's actual value!!!
Understandably, the "Empire" could not let this happen and invaded Iraq again. The sale ticket to the folks at home was "terrorism", because it was so convenient after 9/11 - but the real reason was to maintain the status quo of the Dollar ... it wasn't directly about oil at all.

OK mirvat - I guess this is going to be the new post on my blog ... with some additions.
Be well, Lukas.

Andrey said...

Very informative

Anonymous said...

Andrey, politicians and leaders can talk and talk, lie and deceive and get away with murder if needed. Economics have their own set of rules, and economics never lie. You either gain or you loose. It's simple math.
Saddam was not stupid and tried to play by these rules, without success I guess.

Mirvat said...

roubs, he makes me naively hopeful too

Lirun, hold him accountable of what? in a world where the israeli government, the american and british government are in control despite all the wars they raged on humanity, he's the last one on my list..
you keep saying i hate israel! have i ever said that i don't? of course i hate israel.. not the people of course.. but i hate the fact that israel would start a war on lebanon based on what apparently it stands for.. if that what it stands for then yes i hate it.

"Now what happened afterwards is a mystery to me. Bush senior had changed his mind" it's really no mystery.. they encouraged him to attack kuweit just to have an excuse to attack iraq. they wouldn't let iraq gain too much power in the region and gain all control over the oil. at the same time that they were backing saddam up, for a while israel in cooperation with jordan wanted to overthrow saddam's regime and establish the hashemites in iraq. syria was backing a weak post gulf war saddam regime so that iraq won't go to the US-backed arab regimes.

thanks zee for your comment

Mirvat said...

check this link

Mr. N. said...

Being completely objective, If you go back to the beginning, I think you will know why andrey.

...

"We must do everything to insure they (the Palestinians) never do return." Assuring his fellow Zionists that Palestinians will never come back to their homes. "The old will die and the young will forget."

David Ben-Gurion, in his diary, 18 July 1948, quoted in Michael Bar Zohar's Ben-Gurion: the Armed Prophet, Prentice-Hall, 1967, p. 157

Andrey said...

I think that he was shure 60 years would be more than enough for that. And now, if the palestinians will return, we will have 2 palestinian states: palestine and israel - that's the agenda today.

Mirvat said...

mr. n. most israelis i have talking to assure me that Ben-Gurion and golda meir's views on zionism are no longer alive. i find it hard to believe with what's happening today and the emerging neo-zionism (http://www.counterpunch.org/cook09232006.html) this article gives a good account of the modern day PR machine serving neo-zionism.
people like andrey surely do not represent these views. the 2 state solution is the legal solution but it remains to be implemented. also andrey aren't you aware that palestinians are not granted visas? while all the jews are called to return to israel as encouraged through the exagerated anti-semitism wave of accusations

Andrey said...

Now that Al-Qaedah declared that they want to focus on Israel (and the Gulf), visas will be hard to get to much more people than just palestinians. Did you know that we had 2 pakistanians with british pasports blowing themselves up in Tel-Aviv, a year ago? This is freedom against security, and now - all over the world.

P.S. How do you expect us not to use these atacks on the west? Even if every politician would shut-up, there are numerous firms, dealing with security isues, technologies - western news agencies ran themselvs to Israel, for answers, what can they do to feel secure. The biggest Arab problem is (olso) Arabs themselves: it is bin-laden, who made western ties with Israel stronger, and palestinian sufering secondary, it is Arafat - the one to blame for Hashemit ties with Israel, and almost a Jemayel state of Lebanon.

Ingrid said...

Mirvat, the dj I apprenticed with tonight was interviewing an attorney who represents the Venezuelan gov't. He was pretty interesting and when I have the transcript of that interview, I'll let you know. The MSM in the US has focussed completely on the fact that Chavez called Bush the devil. Potatoes poTAHtoes. Bush has been doing the name calling on Chavez for a few years plus the bushies have tried to overthrow his gov't. The speech contained some very good points that are being totally ignored. Except in the rest of the world to which the American people need to wake up to.. hopefully some day, but unfortunately, not any time soon..
how depressing huh?
Ingrid

Mirvat said...

i anticipated with his words a wave of character assassination. it's a shame for his speech not to be heard and taken seriously. i would love to see that transcript. and while everything seems to be depressing these days i like to thing it has to get worse before it gets better :)

Lirun said...

mirvat.. exaggerated anti-semitism accusations? hating israel? u're losing me bigtime..

i have lived in many countries around the world and i can tell you first hand that antisemitism is a very strong thought school.. and its the same crap that was promoted back in WWII when a minority of less than 1% of the population was said to be a threat to the entire german existence..

i have been violently accosted at work (in a global organisation) ONLY because i was jewish.. do you understand what this means?! to be hit in the workplace by someone you dont even work with who whispers racist slogans at you as you walk by or alternatively chants allah hu akbar at you when no one is around.. only because you are jewish.. guess what.. this person wasnt even fired.. forget racism.. they committed a criminal act and in the context of being done against a jew it was instantly overlooked..

or in another firm i was with a german lady who walked past quickly accidentally almost knocked me over.. and a partner watching said "she's obviously trying to do what her grandfather failed to achieve!"

i dont know what you do where you live how you earn your bread - but i have worked and lived in so many places and can tell you that in every single place i was harrassed and humiliated on a regular basis - not always by colleagues by often by them too..

and when it wasnt antisemitic i would be criticised harshly for not partaking in christmas celebrations and i would be told that i HAD to attend christmas events and HAD to join other religion based festivities yet was not allowed a day off on YOM KIPPUR!!

how dare you talk of over-inflated antisemitism accusations! was the holocaust an over inflated accusation!! are the synagogue's that burn every year over inflated?!?!

are you for real?!?!

i am a western appearing.. accent-free.. multi-lingual professional.. and in many countries people assume i am local because i blend in very well.. i have won international accolades for my work and gained enormous job satisfaction.. but nowhere would anyone allow me for a single second to forget that as a jew i was not welcome.. or that employing me is "unconventional" or "risky" or that despite my experience in the world's top companies that "i needed more blue chip experience".. with racist looks dripping of their faces.. oogling me with surprise when i finally get the next awesome job.. while my non jewish would breeze in and out of roles that they were not even qualified to do.. don't get me wrong - i am happy for my friends - but as a jew the world has forced me to work very very hard for basic opportunities that others get with so much less blood sweat and humiliation..

i love israel.. i love my country.. i love my land.. i love my people.. i love my past.. i love my future.. and with all of its challenges i even love my present.. but dont sell me crap about the jewish homeland being some stuffed up conspiracy theory gone wrong..

as to not liking what israel stands for.. i really wonder if you like what you stand for.. and to be honest i have no idea what it is.. i have been following your blog for sometime now thinking i might understand but i clearly lack the capacity to do so..

all i can come up with is inflammatory and inciteful thought.. and that isnt much of a minifesto..

anyway.. i'll let you bask in your concepts without further disturbance.. i have had a gutful..

Anonymous said...

zee loves Chavez and saddam.aint that cute.i bet he had a crush on adolf also.

Rhiannon said...

[Zee] "Then the inspectors came in, and they came out, and then in again. But there was no gratitude in that for the US empire. So they fabricated the myth of weapons of mass destruction (WMD). The inspectors had to quit. Scott Ritter rebelled and went back to visit Saddam, him being the chief inspector for quite some years, stating that a dialog is needed. The US government cut Scott Ritter short and fabricated some shit that he was into kiddie-porn, put a damper on his reputation (unfounded of course).
So what did Saddam do? Well, he played his last card and declared that Iraqi oil would trade from now on in Euro's and not in Dollars. I strongly believe that that did "brake the camel's back" and the US government freaked out. For decades the oil marked was based on the US Dollar, actually from the beginning on of exploitation in the Middle East. Now suddenly, the the country of the second largest oil reserve in that region defies the US currency. That could be a disaster! The US dollar would plummet to it's actual value!!!
Understandably, the "Empire" could not let this happen and invaded Iraq again. The sale ticket to the folks at home was "terrorism", because it was so convenient after 9/11 - but the real reason was to maintain the status quo of the Dollar ... it wasn't directly about oil at all."

Zee that was so "spot on" what you say there that I had to repeat it.

When you're trying to be honest and you don't do the bidding of the NeoCon Elite you better watch your back.

The Zionist/Neocon run TV networks and publishing companies can break your reputation down to humiliating pieces through their lies and innuendos - just because you DON'T HELP THEM distort the the truth or help paint an ugly picture of Arabs - or help keep going the bloodshed in the Middle East.

Scott Ritter and George Galloway, to name a few, are examples of such smear campaignes - because they were honest and told the truth.

While in office, Clinton tried to do the right things for the Palestinian people (of course he didn't have much power or choice anyway) but he really did try. He paid for it with Monica Lewinsky. News lately has been trickling in that he was set up with her. I wouldn't be suprised.

Now he's getting raked across the coals over 9/11 for chrissakes. To me this is a desperate attempt to make Bush look like Shirly Temple. How nauseating.

Anytime anyone tries to come forward to help the Palestine situation, the Zionist/NeoCons scream:

"Anti-semitism!"
"Israel has a right to defend itself!"

Against WHAT?

I'll tell you what Israel has a right to defend itself from:

The racist, hatred-breeding, warmongering government/Knesset/Likud/Labour - Whatever

The fanatical, TERRORIST, 'jewish" settlers

Its governments policies deeply intertwined with the policies of the USA government